Texas DEC Meeting – Text Version
Please note: The very premise of the purpose of this Division Executive Meeting (which is stated as fact by Johnnie Holley, David McMahon, Gary Bray and Ernest Kobs at different times during the recorded meeting) is that the National Division requested specifically to the Texas Division that Clifford Rudolph Ray II be brought up on charges of disorderly conduct, and that the charges be handed over to the National Division for investigation by the National Disciplinary Committee, and disciplinary measures. Thus, if the National Division did not, in fact; make this specific request to the Texas Division, the Texas Division Executive Council may at the next meeting accept and vote upon a motion to rescind, as its motions and all related votes moved and voted upon were so done in false pretense. (And let’s be honest, if this is indeed the case and they do not so move and vote to rescind, there is no integrity left to be associated with the Texas Division leadership whatsoever, and they should be voted out of or legally removed as per provision 7.3 of our NationalConstitution which states: “Any officer elected or appointed may be removed by the individuals authorized to elect or appoint such officers whenever in their judgement the best interest of the Confederation will be served thereby.” or as per the Texas Constitution provision 18.104.22.168 which states: “The Texas Division Commander has the authority to immediately suspend an officer from his office for conduct detrimental to the Confederation upon proper proof; said action to be reported to the next regular meeting of the Division Executive Council in executive session for approval and thence to the next Division Convention for final dispensation. Any officer so suspended shall have the right to appear before the Division Executive Council.”)
Moving forward – I’ve had quite a few people mention that they only listened to a little bit, but the sounds and the muffled voices etc. were confusing or difficult to follow. For those who saw / heard about the audio recording of the meeting, which was previously posted HERE, but haven’t had time to listen to it or were unable to understand, I’ve included below a more detailed synopsis of the proceedings. Please note that anything italicized and in red did not occur in the meeting and is my own statement being interjected at an appropriate location. This isn’t quite a transcript, as only the main ideas and main players for and against are typed out, and all of the little conversation between that is just discussion about rules of order, or roll call or voting (though who voted for what IS recorded here) etc. is skipped over.
At the beginning of the session, quorum was called with 33 members present, prior to any motions. Here are the Texas elected officers which were present for this session, based upon the roll call for voting as read by Bill Boyd. #21, Sam Mercer, is assumed to have logged into the call at some point, as the called his name out on every vote, but he is inactive and never once gives any sign of being present.
- Commander / Muster Roll Editor David McMahon – Presiding
- 1st Lt Commander John McCammon
- 2nd Lt Commander Dennis Brand
- 3rd Lt Commander Lee R. Lance
- Chief of Staff Bill Boyd – Vote Counting
- Adjutant John Dickey
- Past Division Commander Gary Bray
- Past Division Commander Johnnie Lee Holley
- 1st Brigade Commander Mike Walker
- 1st Lt. Commander 1st Brigade Rocky Sprott
- 2nd Lt. Commander 1st Brigade Benjamin W. Bonney
- 2nd Brigade Commander John McMaster
- 1st Lt Commander 2nd Brigade Don Taylor
- 2nd Lt Commander 2nd Brigade Bob Templeton
- 3rd Brigade Commander / Texas Mounted Color Guard Commander Calvin Allen
- 1st Lt Commander 3rd Brigade / Division Color Sergeant Jack Dyess
- 2nd Lt Commander 3rd Brigade James Barry Turnage
- 4th Brigade Commander Richard Smoot
- 1st Lt Commander 4th Brigade Daryl Coleman
- 2nd Lt Commander 4th Brigade David Rediger – The Parliamentarian
- 5th Brigade Commander Sam Mercer – Inactive throughout the call
- 1st Lt. Commander 5th Brigade Larry Joe Reynolds
- 6th Brigade Commander Mark Phillips
- 1st Lt Commander 6th Brigade Shelby K. Little
- 7th Brigade Commander Frank Bussey
- 1st Lt Commander 7th Brigade Chad Weldon
- 2nd Lt Commander 7th Brigade James Bozeman
- 8th Brigade Commander Daniel Dyer
- 2nd Lt Commander 8th Brigade Wayne Jones
- 1st Lt Commander 9th Brigade Ernest Kobs
- 10th Brigade Commander Hank Van Slyke
- 2nd Lt Commander 10th Brigade Bill Maddox
- 1st Lt Commander 11th Brigade Bobby Diess
Dennis Brand made the motion (as did Johnnie Holley, though he was difficult to hear) that executive session begin. It was seconded by Earnest Kobs (Johnnie Holley did as well, though he was difficult to hear). Gary Bray was recognized officially, as having seconded the motion. There was no opposition to this motion.
David McMahon explained that the purpose of the gathering was to discuss disciplinary measures against Texas SCV Compatriot Rudy Ray (Clifford Rudolph Ray II), over an incident – on claims of Disloyalty to the SCV. He then explained that the Texas Division as the DEC was being asked by National not to make a decision regarding guilt or innocence, but rather to forward it to National Discipline Committee. It is important to note, that National has disavowed any and all involvement in these proceedings, thus tacitly indicating that this statement is a fabrication. In fact, National is more concerned with “Damage Control” following the release of this audio, than they are of anything to do with Rudy Ray. Bill Boyd then interjected that this is an executive session, and that all things discussed therein, was to stay within the confines of that session. It didn’t do much good… Members of that session felt that it was important for members of the Texas Division to see what their elected officers were doing behind closed doors.
David McMahon continued: When we were at National, at the opening ceremony, every year since 1896, the commander of the Sons of Union Veterans has addressed our assembly. And conversely our commander every year, addresses their assembly. This year was a very special year for commander Strain in that his great, great grandfather stood in Memphis, the same city we were in, and welcomed the Union Veterans Commandant to the meeting. The commander in chief of the Union Veterans delivered a very stirring speech and got a standing ovation from the assembled men, and in his exuberance, commander Strain gave the man a hug up on the podium. At reading all of the Facebook entries, I’ll just say that compatriot Rudy Ray [took issue] with this. This action is being sent from our division to national. Note that prior to any voting, Mr. McMahon has already decided the disposition of this executive session, despite no motion having been made, seconded or voted on by those telephonically assembled. This happened on their shift, it happened to the commander in chief, and should be handled to them to settle the matter.
Benjamin Bonney then asked: I understand it happened at National, but why can’t we handle it here at our level?
David McMahon responded: Because, the way that the SCV is set up, we have power right here, we do not have power at Nashville. At Division, about the only thing we can do is toss a member out of the Division. We can’t toss a member out of the SCV. It seems that here, Mr. McMahon is revealing his intentions with regards to compatriot Rudy Ray. National can do that, but in the middle, we can’t. It’s in the Constitution.
Johnnie Holley then stated: The main reason that I personally would like to see this passed on to National is if we try to do it here in Texas, there’s gonna be all kinds of complaints about personal vendettas and problems, railroading and all of this. If we send this to National, it will be handled by a disciplinary committee that nobody knows who they are, and they don’t know anything about anything. What they’re gonna look at the evidence, and the evidence alone. Here we see Mr. Holley attempting to lead the members telephonically assembled, and make the action of sending the complaint to National appear to be a benevolent act, and sugar coating it in such a way as to make the members feel that it’s the best way for them to come out without blood on their hands, or further issues from the membership. This will cut out some of the problems that we had four years ago. It will show that the Texas Division is being as impartial and as unbiased as we can possibly be. Now all we’re doing tonight, is deciding whether we want to pass this forward. If we do, all the information, the testimony, the data will be handed to National and it will be investigated impartially, and we can cut out some of this squabbling and fighting that we’ve had to put up with here in Texas.
David McMahon continued: Clearly attempting to continue the psychological manipulation of leading the members to the disposition that he and Johnnie Holley clearly desire… It is explained to me that one way this is advantageous in that we do not have to be judge and jury. We do not have to figure out innocence or guilt, we just pass it on to an organized group that handles it.
Johnnie Holley then interjected: National will determine the same level of guilt or innocence, they will give out the same types of discipline from a letter of recompense all the way up through [inaudible] and everything listed in between. This does not mean that we’re going for expulsion, all it means is that we’re gonna let them make the decision.
Chad Weldon stated: Well I’d like to say for a second if I may, I have reservations about, there’s just so many background noises and things going on here, we’re not all looking each other in the eye. I don’t trust stuff over the phone like this. I have reservations about handing down such a decision in this manner, and at the same time, it’s one of those type of things that without giving a hearing before our own DDC, it sounds like we’re refusing to try to clean up our own mess in house just for convenience and expedience. I mean that’s just my personal feelings. I think that we ought to do this in a face to face meeting and make a decision, and then, through the proper process if the decision made within our ranks isn’t what Rudy wants to hear, then he can appeal it to National. [Loud whistles and muffled speech] This doesn’t seem like the secure and proper method to handle something serious.
David McMahon responded: Telephonic decisions and discussion is allowed by our division.
Chad Weldon replied: It may be allowable, but I mean, you’ve already had where distortion cut off what you were saying the first time. and everything. It may be allowable, but I don’t trust this as a proper method for handling these type of things. I think a man ought to face the men that he’s dealing with. But that’s Chad Weldon’s opinion.
Benjamin Bonney interjected: I think we ought to put it off until September. I’ve got the same problem. I’m hearing so much noise and echoing. [Discussion about the weather and how to avoid as much background noise follows]
Don Taylor: I have a question. I heard up to the point where the commander in chief gave the Union speaker a hug. I did not hear what the violation is that we’re considering.
Unknown (To Me) Speaker replied: Rudy wrote some pretty unpleasant Facebook posts and sent them out to a variety of people and they were captured and resent, and ended up in some very public places with some very unpleasant things to say about the proceedings and the Commander’s behavior.
David McMahon continued: For derogatory comments posted on multiple Facebook pages. Comments directed at the Commander in Chief, and comments expressing disloyalty to the Sons of Confederate Veterans.
Rocky Sprott made a motion put off the proceedings regarding compatriot Rudy Ray until the next Division Executive Council meeting on September the 9th. The motion did not carry, and this subject was not tabled, as he was having difficulty hearing and was able to only “pick up bits and pieces”. [More discussion about the weather and the noise.]
David McMahon then proceeded to read the obviously highly offensive Facebook post written by compatriot Rudy Ray. An image of the post is included only to prevent anyone from claiming that Rudy said something which he did not. Someone, please email me and let me know where in this quoted statement any “disloyalty” to the SCV is exemplified. I just don’t see it.
If anybody has been or is wondering about what “The Truce” was, well here is a glaring example of it. And this little scene of the CIC of the SCV embracing the Yankees, for that is exactly who he is embracing, is an example of such, and is further proof that many in the SCV today do not give a damn about vindicating the Cause, but only want the infamous and Progressive serving “Truce” reinstated. If they and their Yankee buddies can get that done then all will be well and we in the SCV can go back to our meet, greet, eat, civil war roundtable, history preserving, social club, and have fun and dance and sing and dress up and play soldier and get back to our harmless, get along with everybody SCV fun and games.
Basic historical facts, common sense, and sound reasoning demands that if the Confederate Cause is vindicated the Union/Yankee Cause is condemned and if the Union/Yankee/Progressive Cause is vindicated the Confederate Cause is therefore condemned. Pardon me but I refuse to throw my brain out the window to get along with these duped men and their Truce mentality.
AND this type of glaring example of this Truce Mentality, that has always served the Progressives, is a draw a line in the sand type of action. Strain knows, damn well knows that such a thing is highly offensive to the Unreconstructed men in the SCV and yet he does it in our face. Who would have missed such foolishness if it simply was left out? A few Country Clubbers? So Strain draws a line in the sand. Our Unreconstructed SCV response should be ok. So be it. If we are indeed Unreconstructed SCV men, if we are indeed vindicators of the Cause then let us indeed be such. And let us truly work in all that we do to unreconstruct the SCV according to its Charge to vindicate the Cause.
David McMahon then continued: And then there was event after event after event on Facebook after that. That was the main one that started it, and that Strain read to the assembled people of the convention, and there was a great outcry from the members of the convention to go ahead and have a vote for expulsion at that time. It was just brought back in to order by commander Strain, and that is what has lead us to today’s events.
Unknown speaker: I’d recommend that Strain needs to have a little thicker skin.
David McMahon replied: Well, like I said. We are not here to judge guilt or innocence, and here, he once again psychologically leads those listening, to the outcome he desires… but just hand it on to the discipline committee who will make a complete investigation of the matter. That is the only thing that we can do.
Calvin Allen made a motion put off the proceedings regarding compatriot Rudy Ray until the next Division Executive Council meeting on September the 9th. He was the second to do so, though Benjamin Bonney was not acknowledged when he did so prior. Benjamin was, however; acknowledged as having seconded this motion. David McMahon attempted to get a converse motion that it be sent to National, but was advised that only one motion could be voted on at a time. The initial motion was then processed as a roll call vote.
YES votes to move to next DEC: Benjamin W. Bonney, Calvin Allen, Chad Weldon, Frank Bussey, Hank Van Slyke, Jack Dyess, James Barry Turnage, James Bozeman, John Dickey, John McCammon, Mike Walker, Rocky Sprott, Shelby K. Little.
No votes, demanding immediate action: Bill Boyd (did not read off his vote, but counted himself in the vote against), Bill Maddox, Bob Templeton, Bobby Diess, Daniel Dyer, Daryl Coleman, David McMahon, David Rediger, Dennis Brand, Don Taylor, Ernest Kobs, Gary Bray, John McMaster, Johnnie Lee Holley, Larry Joe Reynolds, Lee R. Lance, Mark Phillips, Wayne Jones.
With eighteen votes against, thirteen votes for, and two not present for roll call, the motion was defeated. Discussion regarding disciplinary action against compatriot Rudy Ray was not tabled until the next Division Executive Council.
A motion was then made by Johnnie Holley that the issue be forwarded directly to the National office of the Sons of Confederate Veterans disciplinary committee. The motion was seconded by Lee R. Lance. Before this could be voted on, a motion was made to amend the initial motion to move the issue to the DEC having an “emergency meeting” as soon as possible, even this month, on a Saturday or Sunday to discuss the issue face to face. Motioner stated that it “isn’t fair, it isn’t justice to anybody”. David McMahon dismissed any talk of justice and stated it was only over sending it to National again attempting to lead the voters psychologically, and attempted to move on to the second motion, declaring the first fully defeated, but was rebuffed by David Rediger citing Robert’s Rules of Order. [Discussion about what exactly the amendment is due to noise etc. ensues]
Jack Dyess then asked: Exactly what is his [Rudy Ray’s] violation of the Constitution? What provision of the Constitution did he [Rudy Ray] violate? What is the charge against him[Rudy Ray]?
Bob Templeton replied: Well, it’s basically “ungentlemanly conduct”. Notice, no one seems to know any formal charge… Are there any? Disloyalty, Ungentlemanly Conduct, Violation of Code of Conduct… What is it?
Unknown Respondent: He violated the Code of Conduct. As per the National Constitution, 3.2, the only mention of Conduct: “Members shall at all time[s] conduct themselves as gentlemen so as to bring credit and respect upon the Sons of Confederate Veterans and upon the memory of our Confederate forbears. 5.10 under Membership Standards mentions: “Each Division of the Sons of Confederate Veterans shall be the judge of its own membership, subject to the restrictions of this Constitution and the standing orders. The Texas constitution 13.1 says simply: “Charges shall be based upon disloyalty, neglect of duty, dishonesty, and conduct unbecoming a member of the Texas Division and the Sons of Confederate Veterans, or the commission of an act repugnant to this Constitution and Standing Orders.”
Jack Dyess replied: So he spoke his mind, and…
Unknown Respondent interrupted: No, he didn’t just speak his mind, Jack. He did more than that. He made fun of / belittled the Commander in Chief.
Jack Dyess replied: I can’t find anything to disagree with. The truth sometimes hurts.
David McMahon naturally replied: This is the reason I like the idea of sending it to National. Because if we do it face to face, we’ll have these same arguments and it will tear us as a Division apart.
Unknown Speaker: With all due respect, Commander; we’re going to go and give one of our own, as disagreeable as he may appear to some, we’re going to go and just give him over to another party that is actually subordinate to the offended party.
David McMahon replied: I don’t think that Bob Edwards and the disciplinary committee are subservient to anyone.
Gary Bray stated: Gentlemen, don’t we have a guarantee through our Constitution? Our National Constitution through Sons of Confederate Veterans? Online, there’s a disciplinary handbook. I don’t think Mr. Ray is gonna be beat up over this thing. They will follow the rules. It’s just a different Court, that’s all. The offense was made to National. I can find no proof of the following statement, and in fact, National is distancing themselves from this altogether and disavows any involvement in these proceedings National calls for this. They’re just asking us to pass it on to them. We’ve gotta believe in our National leadership and our National constitution. This is not a lynching.
Ernest Kobs stated: The way I see it, there is a chain of command. And speaking out against the SCV as a whole, at the National convention, against our commander, violating the rules of conduct is something that probably needs to be passed up the chain of command as requested by the higher echelon. Again, I can find no evidence directly linking Strain or National to these proceedings. I understand the concerns, but we’ve elected these people at the top, and we should have full faith in them as they have full faith in us.
The motion to amend the initial motion to move the issue to the DEC, by having an interim meeting of the DEC prior to the September meeting to discuss the issue face to face was discussed as if it had failed, but three people stated that they had seconded the motion including David Rediger and Benjamin Bonney. [Chaotic discussion over no one knowing what the amendment is, or having heard it, etc erupts.] Speaker stated: If you are for having an emergency meeting, give me a yes. If you’re against the emergency amendment, give me a no. Roll call on the amendment was then taken.
YES votes to emergency DEC meeting: Benjamin W. Bonney, Calvin Allen, Chad Weldon, Frank Bussey, Jack Dyess, James Barry Turnage, James Bozeman, Mike Walker, Rocky Sprott, Shelby K. Little.
No votes to emergency DEC meeting: Bill Boyd (did not read off his vote, but counted only the above ten as for), Bill Maddox, Bob Templeton, Bobby Diess, Daniel Dyer, Daryl Coleman, David McMahon, David Rediger (even though he lead the fight to get the amendment voted on), Dennis Brand, Don Taylor, Ernest Kobs, Gary Bray, Hank Van Slyke, John Dickey, John McCammon, John McMaster, Johnnie Lee Holley, Larry Joe Reynolds, Lee R. Lance, Mark Phillips, Richard Smoot, Wayne Jones.
There were ten votes for, twenty two against, and one not present for the vote. The motion failed.
The second motion previously made by Johnnie Holley was then restated by Johnnie Holley and seconded by Lee R. Lance to forward the issue to the National disciplinary committee was then voted on. A roll call vote was taken.
YES votes to forward to National: Bill Boyd (did not read off his vote, but counted only the above ten as for), Bill Maddox, Bob Templeton, Bobby Diess, Daniel Dyer, Daryl Coleman, David McMahon, David Rediger, Dennis Brand, Don Taylor, Ernest Kobs, Gary Bray, Hank Van Slyke, John Dickey, John McMaster, Johnnie Lee Holley, Larry Joe Reynolds, Lee R. Lance, Mark Phillips, Richard Smoot, Wayne Jones.
No votes against forwarding to National: Benjamin W. Bonney, Calvin Allen, Chad Weldon, Frank Bussey, Jack Dyess, James Barry Turnage, James Bozeman, John McCammon, Mike Walker, Rocky Sprott, Shelby K. Little.
There were twenty one votes for, eleven against, and one not present to vote. The motion carried, the Texas Division Executive Council voted to allow the SCV National Division to send the issue regarding Compatriot Rudy Ray before a disciplinary committee.
Frank Bussey inquired: Is this a simple majority vote?
David McMahon responded: Since this is not disciplinary, it is simple majority. We do not pronounce innocence, we do not pronounce guilt. We just simply forward it on to the national authority.
Frank Bussey replied: Yes. We refuse to do our job and run it through our own Court, and we send it on to the Supreme Court. I understand.
David McMahon closed the session: Gentlemen, let me remind you that we are in executive session, and nothing that went on in this session tonight can be discussed outside of members that were present. Somebody will have to move that the session end.
Johnnie Holley replied: I recommend we come out of executive session.
Mark Phillips stated: I second it.
No one opposed. Meeting ended. [Again, conversation regarding weather ensues.] For whatever reason, David is requested to remain on the call, as people are leaving. The recording ends before the exact reason can be ascertained.
In case you missed it in my previous post, the audio is below, as is a copy of Rudy’s defense that he prepared on his own behalf. Also included is the document mentioned by Rudy, “The SCV and SUVCW Are Utterly Incompatible With Irreconcilable Differences” which contains quotes by Sons of Union Veterans of the Civil War (SUVCW) regarding the SCV.7-30-17 Letter of Explanation To Friends Concerning the SUV Flap
The SCV and SUVCW Are Utterly Incompatible With Irreconcilable Differences